acting like your house is not falling apart and just putting in duct tape or whatever you call it , trying to hold the thing up . It got to the point where I realized , well this is going to collapse on me .
Then that ’ s the worst thing , I think that could have happened . I had to start taking things down and rebuilding . As a part of that process , this was my attempt to be honest and transparent in the middle of it . Again , I think in that first line in the chorus , I was thinking of those people in Brazil . Where it says , are you finding these songs hard to believe , because I ’ m at war with myself . Actually , that ’ s to God as well . I was directly addressing Him and being like , “ Are you believing in what I ’ m saying here ?” Because I ’ m wrestling with it . I also think that song embodies the essence of the journey I was on . Because it doesn ’ t say , you ’ re not real . It doesn ’ t say , I don ’ t want to think you ’ re real anymore . It ’ s addressed to God saying , “ Hey , help me figure this out .” At the end of it , maybe faith is a gift . That the saddest line in that song is , maybe faith is a gift that you wasted on me . But the resolve with it , if so , faith is a gift , then give it to me . I ’ ve really enjoyed C . S . Lewis as well . He talks about how faith is . In essence , if it ’ s easy to trust , then it ’ s not necessarily fear . Fear is sitting down in a chair when you don ’ t know if that chairs going to hold your weight . It ’ s leaping into the unknown . It ’ s Indiana Jones . That last bit where it ’ s almost like I don ’ t know , but I ’ m trusting anyway . I ’ m still talking to you , God . That ’ s the journey .
I think a lot of the record could be summarized in the journey of that song . But it ’ s a sad song and it ’ s a hard one to know how to do or when to do . I ’ ve been touring . On some of the tours I ’ m doing in churches , and it feels like a weird song to sing in a church , but it ’ s what the Bible does . They have this poetry beside each other where David ’ s like , “ God , where are you ”? Then , “ God , you ’ re the best . You ’ re always present . I feel you every day ”. Then it ’ s like these two realities just crash beside each other . That was also what I was trying to do .
To me that summarizes the record . It ’ s very much in the weeds . But the point and the hope is that it ’ s at least searching upwards . But thank you . That was a fun one to do . Because I don ’ t think there ’ s any other way to communicate the rawness of this . One of the cool things is that “ Hold Onto Your Hats ” is obviously the first song in the record . The last song on the record is “ So Help Me God ”. Then it goes into “ Glaciers in the Rain ”, which is a pivot from “ So Help Me God ”. The melody in the verse of “ Hold Onto Your Hats ” is the same as the melody in “ So Help Me God ”.
[ WM ] Oh , I didn ’ t notice that . Okay .
[ Benjamin ] I don ’ t think many people will . But that was my way of bookending . The little musical piece at the end of “ Hold Onto Your Hats ” is also the musical piece that ends the record . They ’ re in the same key . If you were to put the record on the loop , you wouldn ’ t notice that it ’ s restarted . That was a little fun thing that I did .
[ WM ] That ’ s nice . You plagiarized yourself .
[ Benjamin ] Exactly .
[ WM ] I must ask you about you recording the song “ White Christmas ” last year . Bing Crosby ’ s classic is the biggest selling single record of all time , and as a true wordsmith , you must have been impressed by it in certain ways . Tell us about that choice of yours .
[ Benjamin ] That ’ s a great question . It was spontaneous . We didn ’ t have that on the list that day . But I ’ ve always just loved it . I ’ m trying to flash through the lyrics in my mind , to see
White Christmas what it is specifically that would ’ ve compelled me . But that to me is one of those songs that just gives me all the Christmas nostalgia . It has always just resonated in that sense of it just makes me feel like Christmas . There ’ s nothing jumping out at me in the immediate . But I ’ ve always just loved that song .
[ WM ] And what ’ s your favorite go-to guitar these days ? Do you own recording equipment that you use ?
[ Benjamin ] Yeah , I have Avalon Acoustic , which is a small company in Northern Ireland . It was actually , again , my grandfather that bought that for me before he died . That ’ s one of my prize possessions . I need to buy another acoustic for the road so that one doesn ’ t get entirely smashed . Because even one time I got too excited when I was leading worship . I took it off . Then I forgot it was there and I jumped on it and I jump right through the neck .
Thankfully , they were able to salvage it . It stayed in one end , it didn ’ t fully separate . I ’ m in the process of looking for something else . But yeah , that ’ s my prize possession . Then I have just this little studio set up in my house , Apollo . What are these speakers ? KRK . Just enough to get by . I wish I was better at production . I ’ trying . I ’ m working really hard just to get a bit more confident on the tools . But I ’ ve always focused on the top line of things .
[ WM ] Who do you consider your greatest songwriting influences ?
[ Benjamin ] Wow . A lot . It ’ s hard to even tell . I grew up listening to a lot of swing music , like Frank Sinatra . Sammy Davis Jr . The Rat Pack , that whole stuff . My Dad was really into that . But I couldn ’ t even name you none of their songs . I actually probably should go through all that .
[ WM ] Most of that music was actually written in what was called Tin Pan Alley in New York City . They fed swing music and movie musicals in the ‘ 30s and ‘ 40s and ‘ 50s until the teenagers