ever been given, which I mean, you’ re saying, I think anybody who knows sorrow and can lean in with enough curiosity to go, Okay, this sucks. I’ m going to hold this grief because it’ s just hard.
We don’ t have to say,“ Oh, life’ s hard, but God’ s good.” I think it wallpapers over the grief. But for me, it’ s just been“ life’ s hard.” One of my best friends is really going through a really hard bout right now with cancer. And I talked to him yesterday and his voice is all weak and I was a crying mess after it. Life is just hard. And it’ s okay for us to leave it there.
What I love about this movie is that it doesn’ t just have everything bow tied at the end. It’ s like I still have tumors. I woke up again today. Giddy up! Tomorrow, who knows?
But holding the grief, and God is good, and I get to hold gratitude on this other side. I think there’ s something so helpful for my soul to be able to do that... And I think of what one of our mutual friends, Stan( Endicott), would always say when we go too quickly to celebration before... What did he say? Celebration without suffering is empty. And there’ s something too, just leaning into the heart and then saying,“ And God is good at the same time, holding the tension.” Anyways, I say amen to that. And I’ m living proof of that, and I keep enjoying that with my life.
[ WM ] Yeah. It’ s amazing how the simplest things in life mean so much now. Having a cup of tea in the afternoon with a piece of Scottish shortbread, it just means so much. You appreciate things so much more.
[ Tim ] Yes, that is the gift. I often say that the gift of cancer has been sobriety for me, perspective. And not sobriety as in alcohol or drugs. It’ s just living a more sober awareness. I’ m drunk most of my days on worry, on greed, on what’ s best for my kingdom. Most of my day is drunk with those things. And one of my aims in life is just to live more sober today than I was yesterday.
[ WM ] Nice. Well, you’ ve co-written and recorded so many songs for the church over the years, and you also grew up in a church as a PK( pastor’ s kid). At what point do you think you found your own voice in writing and singing about the Christian experience?
[ Tim ] Wow, what a great question! Dang it, that’ s a great question. I started writing early. I was at a church called Mariners Church for 15 years, and I was leading worship for the students there for the first four. And there was a place where I wanted to do stuff outside of the church that was like,“ God, FYI, I’ m not going to do it inside the church walls because those people just talk to themselves and who cares? Let’ s get outside.” But Jesus changed my heart at a certain point to say,“ There are many people in the gathering that I’ m a part of.” At that point it was a few thousand people. I realized that each of these people knows 10 people that I don’ t know. And what if I got to help us pray together these bold prayers that would leak into the rest of our week?
And so that we would start looking like Jesus because of these prayers and songs we’ re singing, we would look like Jesus on the other side. That’ s like evangelism. I’ m not a big fan of evangelism classes, but I see us representing Jesus, which is the most beautiful evangelism ever.
So that’ s what gets me really excited about us singing songs. When I was at Mariners and being a PK and all that stuff, finding my own voice, it’ s just been in stages. I’ m still finding it. I don’ t like to use a lot of words with‘ ed’ at the end. I figured out“ I learned” is“ I’ m learning.” I’ m still in the process. So I’ m still finding my voice because I’ m still seeing bigger parts of Jesus that I never ever saw before. He’ s actually so much more beautiful than I saw last year. And hopefully when I’ m a few years older, I’ ll be like, Oh my gosh, and there’ s another part of Jesus. I didn’ t even see this. How is He this good? So, I hope it just keeps growing like that.
[ WM ] Amen. Well, you have a book releasing in March entitled Waking Up Again: A Journey of Grief and Gratitude. I want to hear about it from you, and what can you tell us?
[ Tim ] I’ m doing this Flat Stanley thing, and so I’ m putting Flat Tim everywhere I go. It’ s actually going to be in the book. People can put that up. It’ s just like where I find myself is where Jesus is at work. I’ ve been writing an X on my wrist every morning for the past 15 plus years, and part of it’ s just like I woke up again today, so I’ m not supposed to wake up again, but I keep waking up. But we’ ve all woken up. If you’ re watching this right now, FYI, just for FUN, you woke up awesome. And so, there’ s something about the gift of sobriety that is waking up with intention and saying,“ Okay, Jesus, where are you at?” And I’ m so good at that, and I’ ll just go into this. I’ m so good at that when we gather as the church and when we’ re leading our songs and we’ re gathered and doing our thing, which is 80 minutes a week-ish,
But there are 10,000 other minutes until we gather again, worship leaders and musicians. I mean, I started a nonprofit called 10,000 Minutes, I don’ t know, 15 years ago. Just because I’ d spent my whole life on the 80 minutes that we gather, which I love. It’ s so important that we gather. But if our songs and our mission are not about inviting us out into the world as representatives of Jesus, then I think we’ re kind of wasting our time.
I honestly think a majority of my music career, I think Jesus is like,“ Cool, man. I didn’ t ask for most of this stuff. I actually want you to bless your enemy.” You start doing that stuff. You don’ t have to praise me with your voice and cool songs. Let’ s start looking like me and seeking my heart in the middle of these hard things, and then we can sing the other songs. But I’ m just trying to figure out how we do this well.
So my book is, I wrote it with my wife, and it’ s a bunch of little stories. It’ s kind of like a Love Does book. It’ s a bunch of little stories, hopefully a lot of humor, and just a journey on
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