DEFRA, land mana
Rob Yorke RICS, OPWG member and
rural chartered surveyor, interviewed
Ben Goldsmith, a non-executive
director at DEFRA, on behalf of
the Royal Institution of Chartered
Surveyors (RICS) on all things rural,
land use, farming, natural capital
jargon, trees, upland communities,
and the important new role of
beavers in the landscape
these ideas to the public. I would much
rather we talk about the beauty of
nature and wildlife in words the public
understands when we are trying to get
ideas across. Some of the jargon, such
as the word ‘sustainability’, has been
overused, and the word rewilding has
some controversial connotations. But of
course, those working on the creation
of new market mechanisms to enable
‘nature recovery’ do need to use certain
technical terms.
(Rob Yorke) What is your role in DEFRA?
At a recent natural capital investment
conference, environmentalist Tony Juniper
said: ‘It is no longer about halting decline, it
is about restoring nature.’ How do you think
chartered surveyors can do that?
(Ben Goldsmith) As an informal adviser
to the secretary of state, I have been
particularly keen to make sure that voices
not often heard in DEFRA have a say; for
example, during the preparation of the
Agriculture Bill.
Part of RICS’ role is about valuation. Based
on the maxim ‘If you can’t measure it, you
can’t manage it,’ are we getting overly
bogged down in valuing natural capital?
In a way I sympathise with the view that
there is an intrinsic value to nature, which
you can’t put a price on, and by doing
so somehow corrupts our relationship
with it. Having said that, the country
is moving towards environmental land
management schemes (ELMS) in respect
of rural payments, under which we will be
paying land managers to provide services
to the public according to the way they
manage their land, so we will have to put
an economic value on those services.
Do you think the jargon – biodiversity
offsetting, payment for ecosystems services,
natural capital itself – prevents us from, in
the words of ecologist Sir John Lawton, ‘just
getting on with it’?
Yes, there is a place for that language,
but perhaps not when you are promoting
4 Outdoor focus | autumn 2019
The way the
Agriculture
Bill seeks to
transform how
taxpayers’
money is
spent in the
countryside, will
I think be the
biggest win for
nature that we
have ever seen in
this country.
The way the Agriculture Bill seeks to
transform how taxpayers’ money is
spent in the countryside, will I think
be the biggest win for nature that we
have ever seen in this country. Instead
of being handed over to farmers or land
managers on a per-[hectare?] basis,
millions of pounds will be paid directly
in exchange for ‘nature recovery’. There
is going to be a huge role for advisers of
all kinds, including chartered surveyors,
to help land managers, [individually and
collectively], figure out how this is going
to work and maximise their income under
new schemes.
Are you saying there’s more common
ground than we generally hear about
between the Agriculture Bill and the 25-
Year environment plan?
I see the Agriculture Bill as the principle
source of funding to fulfil the 25-year
environment plan. Just to give a small
example, if you have got an unproductive
corner of a field, which is a hassle to
manage as farmland with little financial
return under the current schemes, the