INDUSTRY LEGEND Q & A
Q & A
WITH JOHN COUNCILMAN , PRESIDENT , AMC MORTGAGE CORPORATION & SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF AIME
Q : HOW DID YOU GET STARTED IN THE MORTGAGE BUSINESS ?
A : My background was varied . In college , I took engineering , accounting , business , law , and computer science courses . In the mid-1980s , I was working as a television engineer before I got into the mortgage broker business . My wife was also in the business . Savings and loans were the primary source of funding for mortgage brokers at that time . She started her own business in 1984 with two partners . She was doing Fannie Mae loans , which were very different from savings-and-loan-funded loans . They had a lot more rules , probably even more than they have now .
I thought I could use her company ’ s PCs to do the work that everyone else was doing by hand and do it in no time . I started by creating a Good Faith Estimate program . It used to take an hour to create one of those by hand and my program did it in about thirty seconds . We were taking applications on notebook computers in 1986 and were perfectly positioned to take advantage of the refinance boom . That was my introduction into the mortgage business , and it was fascinating .
Q : DO YOU THINK YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE OVERREGULATED , UNDERREGULATED , OR APPROPRIATELY REGULATED ?
A : We are quantifiably overregulated , or rather , I ’ d say improperly regulated . We need a level playing field between everyone who originates mortgages . We should all be licensed . Mortgage brokers were labeled as the cause of the mortgage meltdown . Later we found out they weren ’ t responsible — it was the programs that were designed to make lenders ’ balance sheets look good . But it was too late because Dodd-Frank had already been written .
Q : WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MORTGAGE BROKERS ( NAMB ) WHEN THE MORTGAGE CRISIS HIT ?
A : I had the interesting pleasure of being named the treasurer at that time . It had been a very large organization , but it was decimated by the crisis . I realized we were $ 2.5 million in debt with $ 100,000 in the bank and our payroll was $ 30,000 per month . I read the riot act to the Board , and it was decided that I would take over as NAMB ’ s Business Manager . We had to let the staff go . We negotiated our debts , and within a year , we were back in the black . Those were difficult times .
Q : WHY DID YOU ACCEPT A LEADERSHIP ROLE WITH AIME , WHICH IS SEEN BY SOME AS A COMPETITOR OF NAMB ?
A : I saw the merit in what Brokers Against Whole-Tail Lending ( BRAWL ) was doing . At first , I didn ’ t think it could possibly succeed . NAMB looked at BRAWL like it was the black plague , which resulted in some friction . Wholesale lenders took BRAWL very seriously . So , I just watched for awhile . I was told not to mention BRAWL or anything about its founder , Anthony Casa , so I didn ’ t .
I began to realize something was amiss at NAMB , because it very often sided with wholesale lenders . In the last eight years , I was the only NAMB President who was a mortgage broker . That and other positions NAMB was taking bothered me .
Anthony called me to talk about his movement . He was very rational and intelligent and laid out what he ’ d like to see in the industry . I knew he had bad blood with the current NAMB president , who is not a mortgage broker . I ’ ve seen conflict come and go , and I thought maybe we could put NAMB back on the mortgage broker track . That was not well received . I was rebuffed for having a conversation with Anthony . He wanted to start a new organization because he thought it was impossible to get NAMB back to its roots . I thought the idea had merit . NAMB laid down an ultimatum . They said I could have no relationship with Anthony and still retain my leadership position in NAMB . So I threw in with AIME .
I still have NAMB membership and contribute to NAMB PAC . I don ’ t see them as absolute competitors of AIME . We have different approaches . I want people dedicated to what I do and what I believe in and the merits of mortgage brokerages representing me . We aren ’ t in competition as much as we have different approaches . People can hold memberships in both .
AIME is attracting younger people , which is exciting to me . We need new and young blood in the industry . We tend to think things can ’ t be done differently . Anthony
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