Журнал Andy Warhol's Interview Россия Interview № 4 | Page 175

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project and then I lost contact with you. But I al-
ways knew you wanted to continue to do music.
You have something to say, and people want to
hear you.
SHIRLEY: I was surprised to take so much time.
I thought my seat at the rock-n-roll table would al-
ready be filled. It’s not a positive place to be but
that’s how I felt. But then I was surprised to find
that no one had replaced me. When I was growing
up, there were so many rebellious women singers
like yourself, Chrissie Hynde (The Pretenders), Pat-
ti Smith...I grew up with that music. In the last de-
cade very few women have verbally rioted against
pop music. I love pop music, don’t get me wrong,
but balance is important.
DEBBIE: I agree, it’s not an easy time for rock.
The market is oriented toward pop, lots of girls per-
forming now more resemble showgirls than artists.
SHIRLEY: Yes, it’s like watching a Broadway
show. Like I said, I grew up with punk.
DEBBIE: OK, girl, are you ready to be punking
it out?
SHIRLEY: Well, I am not a pony and I’m not
a showgirl. I will only do what I know how to do.
DEBBIE: You were always rebellious, but I like
to describe it as inquisitive or strong-minded.
SHIRLEY: I am ready to be disagreeable, but
that’s the role of any artist. The showgirl performers
today, they work hard, smile, dance, sing, in some
ways they are unstoppable. But this is small-mind-
ed—it leaves no room for fear or melancholy.
DEBBIE: Then I want to hear some heavy stuff
from you!
SHIRLEY: At least the new Garbage record is
very guitar-driven. It’s a rock record, there’s no mis-
taking that.
DEBBIE: During childhood, did you think you
would play in a band?
SHIRLEY: No way! I was an ordinary girl who
sang in a choir, went to ballet class, and then acci-
dentally drifted into this alternative universe.
DEBBIE: Before Garbage you sang in the band
Goodbye Mr. Mackenzie, right?
SHIRLEY: Do you remember, we toured with
you in Europe! Meeting you was like touching
a godly rock star. I remember we were stuck in a lift
together in Liverpool, before our first concert.
DEBBIE: Gosh, I remember that too!
SHIRLEY: The elevator doors opened, you
walked in, and I thought I was going to fall on the
floor. I was so freaked out! You greeted me, and
I couldn’t utter anything. But from that moment you
began to support me.
DEBBIE: All my life I’ve been meeting people in
elevators. Once I met Jimi Hendrix in an elevator,
and believe me, I was the speechless one.
SHIRLEY: In Goodbye Mr. Mackenzie I played
keyboards and sang back-up vocals. And Gary Kur-
furst (Blondie’s manager.—Interview) came to me
and asked: “Have you ever thought about fronting
a band?” I was like: “No!” But it planted the seed in
my head.
DEBBIE: He always had a great ear for rock.
Gary could listen, he had impeccable taste, and he
spoke very highly of you. He always said that you’re
one of the most talented singers on the planet.
SHIRLEY: He also advised me to learn from
you, to try to be like Blondie. He always believed
in us.
DEBBIE: We all struggle with low self-esteem,
so support from others is important. Are you strong-
ly affected by criticism now?
SHIRLEY: As I’ve gotten older, I realized that it
was a dreadful waste of time. It’s very easy to feel
like you’re not worthy. Today I can say that I’m good
enough. And this really motivates me.
DEBBIE: Oh, that’s so great. Sometimes you
need to take a step back and have perspective.
SHIRLEY: It’s weird, when we came off the
road seven years ago, I decided that Garbage was
done. Time passes and you begin to understand
who you are and what you need. I read Patti
Smith’s book “Just Kids” and that triggered some-
thing in me. Patti is really all about not giving up.
About that true connection to art. She fired me up,
so now I am ready to say the hell with it and start
again. And I’m not afraid of anything. Our new
album is called “Not Your Kind of People”, and it
is about our entire careers. We were outsiders.
Insiders, hipsters never accepted us. Kind of like
Blondie, I think...
DEBBIE: Perfect name! “Not Your Kind of
People” sounds like Velvet Underground. Trust me,
at the time, no one wanted to be like them.
SHIRLEY: I’m also a little worried about the
heavy physicality of touring. I did it since I was 15
and never stopped, always took it for granted. But
you really have to be fit to do this. It’s a hard job.
DEBBIE: Yes, it’s very athletic for sure. Speak-
ing of, you did some modeling? I remember seeing
you on billboards.
SHIRLEY: To make money I used to model for
art school students. When Garbage became success-
ful, Calvin Klein called me and asked me to do an
advertising campaign with him. But that’s part of
the fun, when after hearing your music people begin
to want you. Suddenly, everyone dreams of seeing
you in their films and TV shows.
DEBBIE: Not everyone could agree to it. You
acted in the series “Terminator: The Sarah Connor
Chronicles”.
SHIRLEY (laughs): That was more at the ab-
surd, rather than brilliant end of my career. I had no
idea what I was getting into. I definitely have more
respect for actors now. It’s extremely hard work.
I said yes to that TV show before I knew what
I would be experiencing.
DEBBIE: But you were in drama group as
a child, right?
SHIRLEY: Do you remember your first acting
job? It’s terrifying. Was it “Hairspray” for you?
DEBBIE: No, my first serious part was in “Union
City”, and I had loads of cameos before that. It’s
nerve-wracking, but if you’re sure of yourself, you’ll
manage.
SHIRLEY: Everyone’s creative path is defined
by actually not being afraid to look like a fool in
a particular moment. That’s the key to any good
career. Are you willing to take that risk of falling?
DEBBIE: Indeed...Did your religious upbring-
ing help you overcome many of these obstacles?
SHIRLEY: My dad was a Sunday school teacher.
DEBBIE: Gosh, I didn’t know that!
SHIRLEY: He was extremely religious, strongly
bound to the church. He was ready to have philo-
sophical debates with his eleven-year old daughter.
He had the courage to disagree, and taught me to be
curious. And what is more, to respect others’ beliefs.
I’m not religious, but it’s good to know how to be
empathetic.
DEBBIE: This sounds preposterous, I know, but
I think that music is a lot like religion.
SHIRLEY: Yes, it’s a form of communal prayer.
If you fall in love with a musician, a song or an
album, then it’s forever. You never fall out of love
with it.
DEBBIE: That’s right. You said that you were
touring since you were 15. You had reason to take
your recent break—you are not Superman after all.
You simply have to recharge your batteries, lie on
the beach, right?
SHIRLEY: I think that I had a fear of becoming
irrelevant. Then I realized that I needed to get off
this train and go home. It’s empowering to know
that you can get back on that train. I don’t care if we
sell a billion or ten records.
BORIS
p. 172
GREBENSHCH
GREBENSH
CHIKOV
IKOV
by
ALIONA
DOLETSKAYA
The group Aquarium, whose songs trace the
history of the country from perestroika to the
present day, is going on 40 years.
Interview explains who Boris Grebenshchikov
was then, and how he sees himself today.
While recording his first English-language
album, Radio Silence, in New York, Boris Gre-
benshchikov talked with the editor of Interview
America Shaun Caley (p. 173).
After 24 years Alyona Doletskaya talked with
BG about Aquarium’s current activities and
asked him to comment on the photographic evi-
dence of the past (p. 174).
AD: Your album “Archangelsk” sounds so time-
ly, it’s the first time in ten years that you are writ-
ing about current events.
BG: During perestroika I gave in to the overall
euphoria: hurray, everything is opening up, hence-
forth we are part of civilized society! The euphoria
quite quickly turned into an understanding that
freedom brings more than plusses. Russia needed
simple restraint mechanisms. Under wild freedom,
people with limited education and excess testoster-
one rule.
When the smoke from the shots in the 90s dis-
sipated, it became clear that the new authorities
would establish different social mechanisms to re-
duce the shooting. Only these new mechanisms
suspiciously remind us of the old. This seems sad
and frightening until you look at Russian literature
from the 19th century and discover that this has all
happened before. If you re-read the greats, from
Saltikov-Shchedrin to Tolstoy, from Leskov to
Gilyarovsky, then it is apparent that national types
do not change. They still exist, the names are just
a little different and they now wear somewhat dif-
ferent clothing. The question is: how do you start
a new kind of society if people do not change?
AD: Nevertheless, on “Archangelsk”, there is an
edge that is foreign to the previous, mellow re-
cords.
BG: A person always has a childish hope that
through some kind of miracle, overcoming all ob-
stacles, he will find heaven on earth. And then
suddenly everything will be great? Then you
relax, you understand: it will be the same. In
2003, when in the song “500” I spoke of “comic
couplets for falling in an elevator”, I also felt this.
I don’t have a position, I’m like a recorder, like a
seismograph, registering what is happening on a
subconscious level.
Last summer after writing the song “Back to
Archangelsk”, I thought that it was about some-
thing else completely. And it turned out that it was
about the same edge. Words are unrelenting. May-
be I would like to correct them, but I can’t.
AD: Today Aquarium puts its songs on the in-
ternet for free. This is indicative: the old system of
sound recording collapsed and musicians are no
longer inaccessible stars, but troubadours, making
money from concerts. Is this a return to the origins
of music?
BG: Artists, musicians and writers have
always had the status of pets to people with means.
Leonardo was on contract. Poets died of hunger
or wrote under emperors, court musicians did the
same. We have returned to the normal
state of affairs. Intellectual property—this is ab-
surd. Everything created by the intellect exists for
all of humanity, it’s impossible to own it.
For 150 years this dangerous trap worked,