out and seeing how ’ s the pastor seeing it these days ? Is he engaging ? Is he there ? But what is beautiful about Tim is that he ’ s very releasing as a leader . And this is one of the beautiful things about his leadership is I think he just loves to set people up for a win . To really lead and actually allow you to be you and to lead the way you would lead .
We have certain things we stick to , and we try to adhere to that we would always want to have a kind of gospel centered song in our set list . And we would always want to try and value the journey of worship , the idea of adoration and praise and intimacy . But I think outside that he would just love to see us lead in the way that the U-shaped way of leading . And I think that ’ s great . And Tim and I know each other .
I will tell you I was intimidated when I first wrote with Tim because I remember it was quite an interesting scenario where I ’ d got to know him at various conferences and eventually there was a kind of moment of , “ Hey , should we write together ?” And he agreed . And I remember going to his house and I didn ’ t know him as well as I know him now , but he ’ s a very good friend now . At the time I was just getting to know him . And I remember going there armed with quite a few song ideas thinking I need to bring my A game here . I remember going into his house and sitting down at two sofas and he was like , “ What have you got ?” And I remember getting the guitar playing my first idea and him sitting there and after a pause he just said , “ Have you got anything else ?” And then I played the next idea , and he said , “ Yeah , keep going , keep going .” So I think it was the fifth idea I ended up playing and it was a song called “ Jesus Saves ”. And this was way back in the day and I remember he went , “ Ah , that ’ s the one . We ’ re going to work on that .” And that started an incredible journey for us as songwriters .
And I think as a songwriter , and I ’ ve worked with so many people now , it never essentially gets that much easier to play someone a new idea . It ’ s your baby . Something that I say this to songwriters a lot is that you ’ ve got to embrace the awkwardness and be vulnerable and create context where you can fail .
I think that ’ s so important for people because it is in those moments where the real gold is found . And actually , from that moment we ended up working on that song . I remember it took us about a year and a half to finish and he was at a church in London . I was at a different church , and we ’ d sort of compare notes , we ’ d play it and go , “ Is it any good ? What do you think ? Let ’ s change that bit . Let ’ s work on it .” And then , I mean it was really crazy actually because I remember then getting a call about a year or so later that this guy in America called Jeremy Camp recorded it . And then he took it in a completely different way to a completely
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