to create value for our customer," Vernon said. "Whether that be another recycler, a manufacturer, or on the ERP system side, we need to be creating value—not just rationalizing a lower price."
Doug Gaier echoed this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of shifting customer perspectives beyond commodity pricing. "Our challenge is to flip the script—to show customers that our value proposition actually costs them less in the long run," Gaier said. "It's about indirect spend, about ensuring their package going out the door is more efficient and cost-effective."
Kevan Grinwis added that standing out in the marketplace requires differentiation. "The biggest danger in sales is homogeny," he said. "It’s about making sure you don’t get lost in the crowd. What is the one thing you do better than anyone else? Really lean into that."
The Art and Science of Sales Training
Training and developing effective sales teams was another key discussion point. Gaier described Millwood’s structured 18-month program that includes regular benchmarks and goal setting. "We used to just hand new hires a manual and some PowerPoint slides and set them loose," he admitted. "Now, we have intentional review points at 30, 90, 180, and beyond. Most of our hires don’t have pallet industry experience, but we can teach them that. What’s harder to teach is integrity, teamwork, and drive."
Vernon shared that 4840 has introduced personality assessments to identify the right sales candidates early. "We try to flush out qualities like optimism and resilience before we invest time and resources in hiring someone who isn’t a good fit," he explained.
For Nic Wilson, sales training is about honing the craft through repetition. "Sales is an art form. The guy with two years of experience is better than the guy with one, and the guy with four years is better than the guy with two. It takes hours of work," Wilson said. "If you’re in sales and you’re not getting rejected, you’re not working hard enough. I love getting a ‘no’ because it means I’m getting to 'yes' faster."
Grinwis also pointed out the importance of mentorship in training. "The best salespeople
human side of sales. "Strong relationships are built on emotional connections. If you walk into a sales call only focused on closing the deal, people will see right through you. But if you see the people first, everything changes."
Wilson agreed, adding, "Sales should be fun. You go to a Yankees game, go fly fishing, whatever it is—connect as human beings first. Nobody wants to be sold to; they want to buy from people they like and trust."
The Role of Systems and Self-Improvement
As businesses look ahead to 2025, the panel discussed ways to refine sales strategies. Wilson is a strong proponent of structured processes. "The best book I ever read was ‘The Checklist Manifesto.’ Everything is based on systems. Sales isn’t just about talent—it’s about tracking how many calls you make, how many emails you send, and how many follow-ups you do. If you’re not measuring, you’re guessing."
Grinwis and Vernon both emphasized the importance of CRM tools. "If you don’t have a CRM, get one," Grinwis advised. "It’s a game-changer. It’s not just about storing information; it’s about analyzing trends and adapting your strategy."
Gaier noted that reviewing past performance is key to moving forward. "This is the perfect time to reflect on 2024 and decide where to target business in 2025. Look at your successes, identify the industries where you’ve gained traction, and double down on what’s working."
Vernon added, "The CRM is only as good as the effort put into it. If sales teams don’t consistently update their interactions and insights, then it won’t be the tool it’s meant to be. A well-maintained CRM is like a roadmap for the future—it helps you track progress and see patterns that might otherwise go unnoticed."
Staying Humble, Hungry and Curious
As the discussion wrapped up, Grinwis summed up his approach to sales with three simple principles: "Stay humble, stay hungry, stay curious. If you do that, you’ll always be moving forward."
Wilson left the audience with a final challenge: "At the end of the day, sales is about being relentless. If you’re not making calls, your phone isn’t going to ring. No one’s going to do it for you. So ask yourself—what did you do today to move the needle?"
The business development panel session included JR Vernon (at left) with Doug Gaier, Kevan Grinwis and Nic Wilson.
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