directors , editors , and creative executives at advertising agencies . We created an art piece that started the reintroduction , and we created some amazing brand opportunities . Kurt basically lived in Converse sneakers , so we went to Converse and we said , “ Look … we ’ d like to create a line of Kurt Cobain sneakers .” We partnered with Courtney Love , who had the merchandising rights , because at the time , we ’ d only bought the music publishing . We put the lyrics of Kurt ’ s songs on the side of the sneakers , and we created this music opportunity that was a merchandise opportunity . We also co-produced the documentary , “ Montage of Heck .” Again , it was trying to keep true to the music — very organic . Kurt wasn ’ t commercial . Courtney didn ’ t want it to be commercial , and she was absolutely right . We learned a lot from the Nirvana experience early on . We bought Aerosmith , Hall & Oates , Chicago , and a piece of The Beatles catalog , and we evolved to the point now where we are one of the largest , if not the largest , independent music publisher in the world — certainly of iconic and legendary music , with James Brown , Prince , Bob Marley , Stevie Nicks , Count Basie , Boston , Def Leppard — you name it . I think we have 140 icons and legends right now .
Sherman : Artists are very protective of their catalogs . What are some of the ways that you create an environment that is conducive to them trusting you ?
Mestel : Unlike my competitors , when we buy , we partner . I don ’ t want to buy 100 % of a catalog . I didn ’ t buy 100 % of Smokey Robinson , Frankie Valli and The Four Seasons , Stevie Nicks , Bob Marley , or any of those tremendous catalogs that we have . Almost all we partnered with . Every once in a while , an artist will say , “ I ’ m selling 100 % of my catalog or I ’ m not doing it .” Most of the time , we are partnering with the artist . If we do a good job , the artist benefits from it . Partnership is the first point in getting an artist to trust you . Second , we always give the artists the final say over creative matters . We involve the artists , the manager , the heirs , the trustees — depending on what type of artist it is — in all of our decisions . Third , over 30 people of the 80 people who work for Primary Wave now have equity in the company . I don ’ t call people employees or staff . I call all of our team “ partners .” We have very little turnover , especially at the senior level . When an artist walks into a major music company , chances are that three or four years later , the people that they knew in the beginning are not going to be there . They may have moved on , or they may be out of the business . Almost all of my team has been with me from the start . I think it ’ s important to an artist to know that when they ’ re coming into a marketing meeting , they ’ re seeing the same people again and again or talking to them on the phone weekly or monthly . There ’ s a real rapport that gets built up . Most importantly , we treat our artists like partners , so our artists are also our best references . If we ’ re talking to somebody about a deal with their music , it ’ s very easy for me to say , “ Call Paul Anka . Call the Whitney Houston estate . Call Smokey Robinson . Call Melissa Etheridge . Ask them what they think of Primary Wave , what they think of our team , and what they think of me .” That is paramount to an artist gaining trust .
Sherman : One of Primary Wave ’ s stated objectives is “ Nurturing young talent to become legends themselves .” Have you had the chance to develop artists yourself ? If so , who are some of those younger talents that you think are future legends ?
Mestel : Mainly , we are in the songwriting business right now . We do own labels . We own Sun Records , and we own Green Hill Records . There ’ s a bunch in the pipeline , and we ’ re in the process of growing our recorded music business , but it ’ s really songwriters that we ’ re focusing on . Our real focus are those icons and legends . About 90 % of our business are the Smokey Robinsons and Stevie Nicks of the world . We have signed lots of new artists over the years , like Blue October , Anberlin , and The Airborne Toxic Event .
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