What do you think
motivates these so called
'doctors' or pastors to
hold these therapy
sessions in the first
place?
I think they genuinely
believe, either nicely or
nastily, that if you are
homosexual you cannot lead
a life that is acceptable to
God. Some of them clearly
were very well meaning
people who were very
concerned for some of their
flock who were gay. One
scene that doesn’t make it,
because we ran out of time,
is where I go to a church
with a gay young man who is
undergoing therapies. He
introduces me to his pastor
who I have a bit of a fight
with over the theological
terms but he wasn’t a nasty
man at all he just believed
this rhetoric. I think others
are just rampantly
homophobic. It’s a fear of
what you don't know
exaggerated by these ideas
that homosexuality is
equivalent to pedophilia, it’s
catching, we pray on you, we
recruit you, all these other
nonsenses that we’ve all
heard and we know are
absolute rubbish.
Do you believe you'll
ever win a scientific and
medical argument
against a religious one?
I do. I win several. If it
comes down to ‘this is just
what I believe’, you can’t win
that and of course there’s
that great PC thing that
we’re not allowed to criticise
people’s beliefs. Well I think
that’s absolute nonsense. If
those beliefs encroach on me
or my life and make my life
less easy, more unpleasant,
then of course you can
criticise a belief. A great
example was chatting to
someone who really wants to
introduce therapies back
here in the UK. He says in
the bible it says
‘homosexuality is wrong’
and this is a scientist. So I
say to him ‘right so you’re
going by the bible as
evidence that it’s wrong, so
tell me as a scientist...
Creationism or evolution
which do you subscribe to?’
and he refuses to answer the
question. He squirms and
hums and gets cross but he
can’t answer the question so
for me that does kind of win
the argument. He cherry
picks what he chooses to
believe and what he choses
to ignore.
What would you like to
see being done in the
future regarding these
so called cures?
What is nice to see, is more
and more professional
bodies are saying we do not
condone these therapies,
they should not be done and
the therapists who are
controlled by us the
professional body should
not be offering these
therapies to their patients.
From all of the tests you
took which did you fi nd
the most difficult?
I think it would have to be
the inversion therapy which
was particularly unpleasant,
the one where I’m vomiting,
because it was so shameful
and I’m so upset. I was
recreating it I admit that,
but one of the reasons I was
so upset was because I was
thinking of the people who
had volunteered to put
themselves through this and
not just for a few hours but
for days and days of this sort
of reinforced shaming. This
is with a background where
homosexuality in England
was still illegal and someone
like me, a doctor, would
prescribe this to people and
that was horrific. The chap
who ran the test with me,
used to actually perform
these tests and he agreed to
come forward and do it with
us that day, which I think
was brilliant of him because
he’s completely remorseful
about what he used to do,
but he was a junior nurse,
following the orders his
senior doctors told him. He
says when I interview him
he never ever saw a single
example of it working.
One therapist could tell
why your homosexual by
a piece of paper you'd
colour in. Will you be
taking up the practice of
having your patiences
colour in the human
body on a sheet of paper
so you can diagnose
what’s wrong with
them?
Ha ha. Well if it makes $250
a pop it’s worth thinking
about it. It’s people like that,
that give the medical
profession a really bad name
and I’m very pleased that we
have exposed that kind of
nonsense and if it makes
even one gay man go well,
I’m certainly not going there
having seen that nonsense,
then I’ll be pleased. ∎
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