two weeks later . And so , Simon Brault certainly made comments about that and said that things have to change in the arts moving forward , because people are not being paid a living wage , and so something needs to happen .
In a lot of ways , the pandemic has been devastating ; however , it ’ s brought to light a lot of things in the arts industry that required a very close looking at , and it ’ s going to have to happen . Obviously , looking at these issues is not going to happen until we ’ re rebuilding , and we ’ re far away from rebuilding .
I mean , our huge concern is the bleed of talent in the industry . It ’ s something that we brought up in almost every conversation we had with government , and certainly with different producers , and it ’ s something we have brought up a lot because , obviously , people are leaving — initially temporarily and potentially permanently . That ’ s really unfortunate .
PL & P : How did the merger with IATSE come together , and why did it make sense for ADC and its members ?
MacKenzie : I think this started when we were in one of the coalition meetings and all of the individual organizations were talking about the relative welfare of their members . IATSE were talking about how there was a real boon happening across the country in filming , because so much had been shut down in the United States
KEN MACKENZIE and a lot of filming was moving north . After that meeting , I think the three of us sort of said , you know , we should really be in conversation them because we have a lot of members who would be useful to them . We know that they have shortages , we know that suddenly they have this influx of work and not necessarily a ton of members to fill out a lot of those positions . But , I mean , this conversation goes back way , way further than that …
Purtell : It goes back 40 years !
MacKenzie : But in the pandemic , that was a real moment , certainly for me , where I saw this as a real opportunity to have a new relationship with them .
Purtell : It was important that we look into all potential possibilities of what could strengthen and benefit our membership coming out of this pandemic . And so , we had organized two conversations with two organizations , one of which was IATSE , and realized that that was a more beneficial conversation . Also , given that the conversation has been ongoing for 40 years as to whether or not this should happen – in the United States , designers fall under an IATSE umbrella for portions of the industry – and I know the conversation has come up at least once during my time of membership , but people ’ s misunderstanding of what it would mean has always turned designers negatively towards the idea . A lot of misinformation , a lot of thoughts about seniority , or a lot of thoughts about how IATSE would control our lives , or maybe we can ’ t be freelance employees anymore , or all of this . So , the three of us set
upon a journey of creating a set of questions and having a few meetings …
Even prior to the conversation , we had started a number of information sessions , town halls , and workshops and a variety of things that we were trying to support our membership with . We were also trying to support anyone who ’ s a designer in live performance in Canada , whether or not they ’ re a member . We felt that everyone could use our help , and so , when we were advocating , as with all of the other associations and unions that we were advocating with , it wasn ’ t solely for our members . IATSE was not lobbying only on behalf of stagehands who are their members ; it was everyone . We came together and we were doing it for the community . And , as this conversation with IATSE began , we had already started to create a sense of community amongst designers in Canada , members or not .
PL & P : Going back to what you were saying earlier , Kim , about bleeding talent . How big of a concern is that within the live performance industry ?
Purtell : I personally think it ’ s a huge concern . I think what we ’ re going to potentially lose are the people coming out of school , or those getting near the end of their formal training . Certainly , it ’ s not like in the arts you start making a base salary . You know , we ’ re all freelance and the way in which you go about getting work for every person is very different in terms
KIM PURTELL of how the work comes , but there is currently no work to be had . So , the folks who are coming out of school , I ’ m very worried that we will not have young talent to foster because it will be too hard in the first couple of years . I think that there are a number of people who are more senior designers whose career is tapering off , and I think many of them will just retire . And I think a lot of mid-career designers are – my least favorite word of the pandemic is “ pivot ” – but certainly a lot of people have had to do that .
I mean , in March , I think the three of us were all working and were all very busy . But right now , none of us have a design gig . We ’ re all working and none of us have a design gig . I think that ’ s really hard , and I think the longer this goes on , the more people consider leaving . You kind of go , “ Okay , it ’ ll be five years for me to even come close to the amount of work I used to have , or the amount of money I used to make ?” — which is never an enormous amount in the arts . So you go , “ Do I want to do that ?”
Also , certainly for the three of us , kind of work / life balance in the “ before times ” did not exist . I think I was working 14 or more hours a day , 42 weeks of the year , and spending at least half the time not in the city in which I lived . I think now that we ’ ve spent a year with time to ourselves , you kind of question the value of your time and the reason one has to work that much ? It ’ s because of how much you make , right ? You have to work on that many projects in order to make a living wage . And so , is it worth it moving forward ?
Also , is the industry going to change ? You know , we ’ ve had some difficult conversations with different parts of the industry during this . There are some times where I go , “ Wow , this is great and we ’ re really having a dialogue ”
32 | Summer 2021