wise guy was back in the 1980s . You walked into a restaurant , people knew who you were . You got a seat right away . There were some benefits in society . Bobby Wallason , I ’ m not even sure whether he graduated from high school , but he ’ s a very bright guy . He ’ s a street smart guy . He wanted to be a wise guy growing up because he saw Nicky Bianco and Frank “ Bobo ” Marrapese ; he saw the way they were treated with reverence when they ’ d walk into a restaurant or nightclub . They just didn ’ t have role models , or their role model was a criminal . When another kid might have seen a doctor in his neighborhood , or a guy who was coaching baseball , basketball , that kid might have aspired to be a doctor or coach , right ? These guys were exposed to wise guys . But I ’ d also say some of these fellas didn ’ t want their kids to be wise guys .
What did they want for their own kids ? They wanted the best for their kids , and they wanted them to live a legitimate lifestyle . And not have to worry about prison , not have to worry about getting shot , not have to worry about being separated from their family . I got to know some of these guys very , very well . The conversations I had with them were just mind-boggling , because they were folks that could run their own businesses , they could have lived a legitimate lifestyle , but this is where they ended up . And then after that , when they got married and had kids , they didn ’ t want their family involved in that stuff .
When you were pursuing some of these characters , did you ever find that they were trying to put you or your family at risk ? The upper echelon of the mob back then wouldn ’ t allow that . I was a gentleman , but I made it very clear , if someone ever threatened me or my family , it ’ d be a different ball game . Most of the wise guys in my era were intrigued by my knowledge of them . I knew some of these guys that were married with their own kids or who their girlfriend was .
In your book , it seemed like a lot of these guys had a mutual respect for you . It was a weird relationship , because they did respect me . If I was after someone , it was because they had committed a crime . I remember telling Louis Manocchio , I would put you in jail for 100 years if I could , but I ’ d never make something up . I ’ d never manufacture something on you . And he respected that . I used to tell my guys , if you stop a wise guy with his wife and kids , be respectful . Don ’ t embarrass somebody in front of their wife or kids . And they knew that about me . I did my job , but I had some interesting conversations because of that . Someone would break down , not break down emotionally , but break that wall of silence and then talk to me , or give me a piece of information that I could then go and pursue .
It was about building those relationships , right ? I got to know more about the wise guys than most average investigators , because I was able to have that casual conversation . They lived by the code of silence . And , you know , some of these guys were doing four- or five-year prison stints and they ’ d keep their mouths shut . But then , as times changed , and during my career , we now have a state RICO statute that was modeled after the federal RICO statute . And then you could actually convict someone . So that RICO statute became very , very powerful .
You did your research . You just did everything you could to know everything and stay one step ahead . We had some charismatic players back then . A lot of those names from the past are forgotten , but Bobo Marrapese was straight out of a movie ; and suave , debonair guys like Louis Manocchio and Raymond Patriarca Jr . He came up under his father ’ s tutelage and was old school , then had to manage what was going on around him as the world was changing . And then there were other associates like Gerard Ouimette and Jerry Tillinghast . There were some players from Rhode Island that were feared in places like Boston and New York . Jerry Tillinghast was a ruthless guy , but a funny , interesting guy . Jerry ’ s deceased , but if I brought him into a restaurant , and he had a jacket and tie on , you could introduce him as a business owner or an entrepreneur . He was a good looking guy , articulate , well spoken , charismatic , but the guy did thirty years in prison . He wrote a book , too — Choices : You Make ‘ Em , You Own ‘ Em — but he left a lot out .
Why do you think the mob doesn ’ t exist like it did back in the day ? Society doesn ’ t accept what was accepted years ago : nightclubs and bars being shaken down , restaurants being extorted . Pretty much none of that stuff exists around here . There might be a little bit of that still happening in New York , with other factions like the Russian mob , but the mob as we saw it here in New England , the way they were making money , has evaporated . They used to have floating crap games . There ’ s no floating crap games anymore . Those are all played an hour away at the casinos , the major high stakes card games that the wise guys used to take a cut of , those don ’ t exist anymore . The money isn ’ t there anymore , and people don ’ t look up to the mob like they did thirty years ago .