S P E C I A L F E A T U R E A u t h o r : M i c h a e l S . H o o k e r – P h e l p s D u n b a r L L P
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A stints as a law clerk with the Eleventh Circuit , with a couple years of private practice sandwiched in between . You also worked with the Federal Public Defender ’ s office before being appointed to the Second DCA in 2015 . Which pre-judicial position did you enjoy the most ?
I enjoyed being an Assistant Federal Public Defender more than anything . The opportunity to make an impact on an individual level and know that you were there for a Constitutional purpose gave me drive every morning . Being a public defender made me a better person , in addition to a better lawyer . I liked the opportunity to work with people from different walks of life . Although I looked different than many of my clients , I had some of the same struggles they did growing up .
You had the opportunity to try a number of cases working with the Public Defender ’ s office . How do you think that extensive trial experience has helped you now as a federal trial judge ?
I can tell you that understanding how quickly things happen in the federal trial court , the strains of time when you are managing a jury , the client control issues that you have during a trial –– you probably don ’ t want to do that for the first time on the bench . There are a lot of practical things that you learn just by trying a case with another lawyer that you just never forget as a judge . I find myself to be much more understanding of the pressures that are on trial lawyers .
You ’ ve also had the opportunity to do something that relatively few lawyers get to do — argue a case before the United States Supreme Court . Can you tell us a little about that case and what it was like presenting oral argument to the Supreme Court ?
Q fish . The case would have been a typical fiveyear statutory maximum for preventing the seizure of evidence . Instead , the prosecutor used a provision of the Sarbanes Oxley Act that says you can ’ t destroy a record or document or a tangible object that relates to a federal investigation . I said this doesn ’ t seem like it ’ s supposed to cover fish ! It seemed to me it ’ s supposed to cover documents or accountingtype things . After I presented oral argument in the Eleventh Circuit , the panel determined that a fish is , in a literal sense , a “ tangible object ” and fits under the statute . I then wrote a petition for writ of certiorari , and the SCOTUS granted cert . Then it became very high-profile and a behemoth to manage .
I would characterize a SCOTUS argument as an “ intense but pleasant experience .” At that point , many have offered their two cents on the way it should be argued , but when you get there , it ’ s just you , and you have to own it . It was a surreal experience to have an exchange with legal giants like the late Justices Scalia and Ginsburg , [ and t ] o have questions delivered by Justice Ginsberg , another person with a Brooklyn accent . And was surreal to have exchanges with Justices Alito and Sotomayor — to have my wife , daughter , mom , late stepfather , and my mentor , Judge Frank Hull of the Eleventh Circuit , there in the courtroom while I was at the podium — I felt like that kid again in Manhattan — enjoying just being in a federal courtroom . It just felt complete , like everything that happened up to that point in my life was for a reason . That ’ s probably a bit schmaltzy , but it really felt that way .
It sounds like a wonderful experience . You ’ ve been on the federal bench now for several months . How has the COVID-19 pandemic impacted your handling of hearings and trials ?
The case involved a fisherman named John Yates who |
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went out for a fishing trip on a rather small , rented |
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fishing vessel . The boat was boarded by law |
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enforcement , and the fish that were on board were what the officer believed to be noncompliant with the regulations because they were below a certain length .
When he came back into port , the officer looked at the bucket containing the undersized fish and said , “ Well those don ’ t look like the same fish ; you must have thrown them overboard and replaced them with larger
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I transitioned in June , right in the middle of this . I wouldn ’ t recommend becoming a federal judge in the middle of a pandemic –– that ’ s my first piece of advice . That said , I received tremendous support from my MDFL [ Middle District of Florida ] colleagues . We need to do everything in our power to provide resolution for |
fish .” So , they determined that Mr . Yates had replaced |
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the 72 fish with 69 slightly larger but still undersized |
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