They had a role in shaping the politics of the
nation and its values, and they did it. I’m trying
to see if we can’t recall the church to those roots.
You bring up some really good points and
I think part of that, too, is how distracting
globalization (especially the technologi-
cal piece of it) can be. It used to take hours,
days, weeks to get information somewhere
in the globe and now it’s just in millisec-
onds, as we’re looking at Twitter feeds,
and YouTubes and all these things, and
they are kind of driving us rather than us
driving them. In your book, you are quick
to proclaim that the Bible is the narra-
tive for God’s work and intention and I
think that it’s critical that we do question
whether we are going in the direction God
wants? Obviously, he knows that global-
ization was going to happen and how we
should deal with it. I believe your theo-
logical affirmations that you proclaim
early on in the book, in how the book is
laid out, are critical to the relation to the
subject of globalization and our place in
it. So maybe, if you don’t mind, you could
share those affirmations so you can help
the reader be more focused, as well?
Basically, I step back and try to look at the entire
narrative arch of scripture. It begins, basically, at
the beginning — in creation. In Genesis, we are
told some things about who we are, about who
human beings are, that begins with being made
in the image of God, which means we are creative
by definition. We worship beauty. We appreciate
morality; we are designed to be moral creatures.
The mission that God gave us right at the begin-
ning was to make his creation fruitful. In other
words, we were to participate in its improving, in
its capacity to care for everybody and obviously
the creation itself. We know that story only lasts
in chapters and then we have a different trajecto-
ry of human history, which basically got us kicked
out of the Garden and struggling now to make a
living and to figure out how to live righteously in
God’s world.
But the good news is that God never gave up. God
has been working—and it’s all the through Old
Testament, the New Testament, and the Church—
and has been working to basically redeem and
restore the world he created. That’s his goal. And
at the end of the book, in Revelation, we find out
“ ... one of the things
that I talk about is that
in 1900, there were
600 million Christians
in the world and
70% of them lived in
Europe, if you includ-
ed Russia and North
America. One hun-
dred years later, 60%
of all Christians live in
Africa, Asia, and Latin
America. “
that we’ve left the Garden, but we have now been
called back to a city in which the nations of the
world will come, and it’s a city in which the stuff
we fight over today like gold and diamonds are
used to decorate streets. He has restored and
redeemed the creation to the point that all of the
impact of original sin is now gone.
So that’s where God is going, and one of the
questions I think the Church has to ask in every
generation is where are we going? Are we trying
to point toward that eventual kingdom fulfilled,
or are we just thinking, well, God will do that
someday, but not now so all we have to do is get
to the end of our lifetime? In other words, are we
located in a particular moment in time? I think
that partly the Church has lost its nerve. I don’t
think we really have as much confidence that
we can make a contribution, that we have things
to say that are helpful that aren’t going to come
from secular sources or from the marketplace
or from the political sector. There is just more
to human beings than politics, economics, and
nation states.
I guess I want to take a minute here to,
I don’t know, pause,and maybe insert a
parenthetical phrase. Your book is won-
derful and we are discussing it now and I
think we are going to have some wonder-
ful talking points and maybe guide the
reader some in thoughtfulness, but it’s a
really complex book and really the only
way to understand all of the things that
you are talking about is that they need to
purchase it, read it, and absorb it. That
being said, I thought a really good chapter
in the book that, I don’t know if I would
call the chapter a summary, it kind of
helps start to get things unfolding. It is
your chapter on “Globalization and World
Christianity.” It’s where you begin culmi-
nating some of your concepts and point-
ing out some of the things that you hit
in other chapters. It gives an idea of how
complex this subject is. I was just hoping
that you might explain a bit about that
chapter and maybe hit some of the high
points so that the reader can understand
a little bit more?
Well, one of the things that we have to accept is
that the Church has been a force into globaliza-
tion. We are not in Jerusalem any more. There
are 2.1 billion Christians all over the planet and
in almost every culture and language group. We
have taken our theology, our ministry, plus most
of our cultural stuff with us when we went on this
journey. So in that sense we are part of globaliza-
tion. At the same time, we are a product of global-
ization. Basically, globalization is the movement
of people, which I talk about as part of globaliza-
tion. One has oftentimes seen in history the move-
ment of large religious groups like Christians and
Muslims and Buddhists. Eventually, you kind of
have to take the first two-thirds of the book and
say, alright, what is going on inside the Church
and how has it changed in ways that we may not
necessarily have noticed?
For instance, one of the things that I talk about
is that in 1900, there were 600 million Christians
in the world and 70% of them lived in Europe,
if you included Russia and North America. One
hundred years later, 60% of all Christians live
in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. And, in fact,
Christianity declined in its former heartlands.
Christianity itself is being changed by nature,