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of minority groups. So it offers our students
an opportunity to take history courses that
are taught from different perspectives and
that are intended to encourage them to see
role models in history, knowing that our
country was founded on immigrants.
What are some of the challenges that
community colleges are facing?
Well, completion rates are something we
continue to try to understand. In the US, we
believe in access and allowing anyone who
desires to attend a community college to
do so. And while that is a noble opportunity,
when we look at the completion rates of
our most needy students – in this case,
immigrants – [the rates aren't as high as we
would like].
I have to say, I’ve been impressed with
Sydney in the short time I’ve been here.
I’ve run into quite a few immigrants, which
I wasn’t expecting, mainly because I didn't
have a chance to do my research. My
college, being on the border of San Diego
and Mexico, serves a diverse population of
immigrants. So I can see from a qualitative
standpoint the challenges that Australia must
have integrating immigrants. Since I’ve been
here I’ve seen Muslims, I’ve seen Asians, I’ve
certainly seen the Aboriginal population, and
so this notion of a melting pot is something
that we still have a challenge and an
opportunity to grow and learn from.
In my own college, we have programs
for undocumented students that allow
them either to attend college for free for
two years, or to attend college using state
tuition. I think that’s a model that would
absolutely work here in Australia. We are in
year two of our community colleges being
free, which is something that entices people
to want to pursue a college education. The
education can be very expensive. Myself, I
left college with a master’s, a doctorate and
over $100,000 worth of debt. That can be a
disincentive for people to attend.
Our students can attend the community
college for their first two years for free.
This greatly reduces the cost of a college
education. I think that is something that
would absolutely work in Australia.
You may say, “Well, nothing is free.” When
we look at the data in the US, particularly
in California, when the public invests $1
into education, particularly higher ed, the
return is around $4. So while it may be free,
what we’re investing in is the future of the
middle class and individuals being able to
fill vacant workforce positions that we know
are important. Whether it be infrastructure,
retail or hospitality, there are large vacancies
in these areas, and community colleges
have always played a role in preparing their
workforces.
I understand that in America, like Australia,
there’s a move away from vocational
education towards university. What can
we do to encourage more people to enter
vocational education?
That’s a great question. As a college
president, this is a subject I spend a lot of
time talking about to high schools, parents
and my own faculty employees. You’re
absolutely right. In the US, I can pinpoint
this challenge to Sputnik and our race to
the moon and the focus on science, which
is absolutely imperative. We always need to
focus on STEM and STEAM, but in order to
build a spaceship, you still need machinists.
So there’s an opportunity to showcase
these careers, to put vocational ed back into
the high schools, and to have an honest
conversation about the earning potential of
individuals who work with their hands.
The way I tend to put it is that I myself
learned the value of career education when
my air conditioning went out. I found out
how much a technician working in heating,
ventilation and air conditioning will make.
My research background consists of the
theory behind social reproduction. I won’t
bore you with a long explanation, but the
theory of social reproduction is that people
are more likely to socially reproduce what
they know. So if our teachers in the high
schools and our professors in the college
primarily know four-year tertiary education,
then they’re more likely to promote four-year
because that’s what they went through. But
when you expose these individuals to high-
paying career education professions, they
actually become more aware of the earning
potential, and something that I’m excited
about is the fact that these careers don’t
require someone to go to school as long as
I did or take out as much debt as I did.
So when you start to have a practical
conversation about the earning potential,
the number of jobs, and the likelihood that
someone doesn’t have to take out a large
burden of student loans, it starts to make
a lot of sense to the average person. Most
people are just not familiar with the careers
that are associated with workforce training.
I’ve been following the Harvard affirmative
action lawsuit. It raises questions of diversity
versus merit, and I was wondering if you have
any thoughts on it in relation to your position
as a community college director?
I absolutely do, in the sense that I am a
strong supporter of equity and diversity in
the true sense of the words.
Very often when we think of diversity,
we think of race, culture and gender.
However, in my line of work, I know that
diversity crosses a wide array of areas.
Cultural diversity, gender diversity, but more
importantly above and beyond those things
are working with students with disabilities
and working with students who are from
different geographies, different areas.
So I believe that when we look at diversity
more broadly than race and ethnicity,
we realise that companies, in order to be
successful, celebrate diversity beyond
culture, race and ethnicity – and we have
the examples of Amazon and a number of
other companies.
Then we start to understand that critical
thinking and problem solving increases
when you have someone that challenges
your thought. There are books and research
out there that study models where, if you put
a sociologist with an engineer, you’re more
likely to get a diverse solution to a problem
versus a bunch of engineers together in
a room. So when I look at diversity, I look
at it in the true sense of the word – being
broader than just race and ethnicity.
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about?
Yes, the role that community colleges
play. I’ve been impressed with the
organisation of the community colleges
in Australia. Community colleges tend to
be an American thing. However, there are
other countries like Australia that do have
community colleges. And as I’ve researched
the existence of community colleges in
Australia, it’s impressive to know they’re
over 100 years old and have been providing
opportunities for adults to access workforce
or higher education.
So it’s refreshing that Australia as a
nation is taking on this challenge of how to
introduce a system of education that offers
opportunities for everyone. Being that there’s
a much larger immigrant population here
than I expected, as someone who’s visiting
Australia for the first time, I commend the
citizens of Australia for offering a system of
education that will serve and appears to have
served as a vehicle for people who have
traditionally not accessed the middle class
to do so. ■
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