industry & research
campusreview.com.au
The Department of Employment
commissioned a report a couple of
years ago that looked at the outcome of
broadening unpaid work experience, and
it was about one in four that led to jobs,
which wasn’t too bad. However, it did vary
across fields.
What makes a difference is just how
competitive those fields are. Some
were really competitive, and people
would sometimes go through a string of
internships before they landed their job.
Buffy was telling me about the ‘intern
queen’ who did, I think, 15 internships
while she was completing her education.
So, some people can keep at it for a
lot longer than others in fields that are
difficult to get that break.
This leads into one of the challenges
of internships. If we set it up in the wrong
way, it becomes almost a privilege just
of the elite, and we’ll reproduce those
patterns we hear about in the paper
occasionally. For example, how a very
large number of journalists come from
very privileged backgrounds, private
schools, these kinds of things. Because,
going through that process, the outcomes
are uncertain and can be very risky,
particularly if you don’t have all those
supports around you, and if you have an
elite institution with the right connections,
or the parents with the money to pay the
bills while you’re going through this period
of study and often unpaid training.
Related to that is the ‘experience versus
exploitation’ debate. How can interns
navigate that, and do they even have the
power to do that?
DW: There’s a fine line between
opportunity and exploitation, and there’s
only so much that a young person can
do. To some extent, it’s up to regulators,
governments and universities to make
sure they’re building partnerships with the
right people and also sending people out
to internships prepared.
But there are risks for employers who
are caught breaking the law. There
was an example in the UK recently of a
journalism intern who was trying to sue
the organisation she did her internship with
for exploitation. The intern said there was
no possibility the internship was going to
lead to a real job or an outcome, and that
the organisation was just churning through
interns who were doing work that people
should be paid for.
That kind of exploitation can become
a systemic problem if it becomes so
widespread that particular industries will
start to rely on not paying people for what
should be entry-level paid jobs. So, we do
have t o keep an eye on it.
Going back to the internship itself, it’s
clear what an intern will get out of a lawful
and meaningful internship, but why are
employers interested in hiring interns if
many of them don’t intend to employ them
after the internship?
BG: Well, what I’ve gathered from chatting
with quite a few interns is that employers
are interested in fresh ideas. And interns
bring in this fresh perspective.
Also, I think part of it is that employers
want to help these young people, even
if they’re not going to give them a job at
the end. They want to give interns some
skills to be leveraged into future jobs that
might be at a different organisation. A lot
of the interns we chatted with realise that
this is part of paying your dues. They know
that not everything is going to lead to a
perfect job at the end, but they get some
experience, they get to network, they get
to work on their business maturity, they get
to see how offices run. So, in some ways,
it does seem a little bit like a win-win, as
long as it is for school credit, so they aren’t
feeling like they’re being exploited.
DW: A lot of internship programs are
put together with the best intentions on
both sides, and it’s important to note
that Australia has done relatively well
in surveys of people who undertake
these internships. In the Department
of Employment’s report, 70 per cent of
people who took these placements were
happy with them. Not only did they lead
to jobs, but people were happy with the
outcomes.
But there is definitely a place for
regulation and keeping an eye on the way
internships are run.
I’ve noticed that in the past few years,
students seem to be more outspoken about
poor internship conditions and dodgy
providers. Is it just a generational thing
or are there more internships on offer, so
they feel more empowered to call out the
bad ones?
DW: Partly what’s happening is that this
kind of experience is becoming more
common. More and more people are
doing it, and it’s becoming less the
experience of just the elite. But there are
probably some generational aspects to a
new understanding that you have the right
to raise your voice about these things.
Particularly, in any kind of educational
context, students have learned that
evaluations on subjects or placements or
such is part of what we do.
The other thing that’s facilitated this is
the digital revolution. You can complain
to a much wider audience about these
things than you used to be able to, which
is something that employers who are not
doing a good job with their interns should
remember. The bad publicity could spread
very widely.
BG: We interviewed the person that
runs the Dodgy Internships Twitter
account for an upcoming episode, and
they were saying the reason they started
it was because they wanted to advocate
for change. One of their tweets got picked
up by the Fair Work Ombudsman and this
led to the Sydney Morning Herald writing
an article about one of the companies not
being forthright in the information they
were providing in their internship posting.
There are also organisations like
glassdoor.com, where people can leave
reviews about internships.
Without giving too much away, what are
some of the main takeaways from the
podcast series, apart from those you’ve
already mentioned?
BG: We dive into tackling your digital dirt,
which I think is a really interesting thing that
not just young people, but people who
are switching jobs and have a very active
life on social media, could benefit from.
We talk about dealing with the stress of
juggling it all when you’re a student. We
were interviewing someone today who was
giving us some great productivity hacks
that even someone who works full-time
and is not an intern could benefit from.
It’s also just a reassuring space that
makes you feel like you’re not alone as
you’re moving through your work-life
journey. It’s knowing you’ve got a place
where you can stop and hear from
people with similar experiences, if you’re
embarrassed to ask questions like, “What
do I wear on my first day?” or, “Is it okay to
close myself in the bathroom stall and do
some deep breathing exercises to ensure
I’m not getting myself anxiety-ridden
during my first day?” And the answer is yes.
So, listen for more. ■
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