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Now , of course , research has an incredible output . Of course , it ’ s incredible to society , but the way we ’ re measuring it is actually kind of nonsense .
Is it easy to measure the extent to which people are making a real difference with innovation , with educational technology , do you believe , and is that becoming more of an issue and a priority ? Obviously it ’ s difficult , and we haven ’ t put a lot of thought into it . We ’ re early on the road , but if you look at how companies do financial reporting , for example , to shareholders , they ’ re usually required to give impact measures that try to show that the company is doing well and is relevant .
How many millions of people are using their software each month , or what ’ s their revenue in licencing fees ? They ’ re very real numbers , and if we generate a piece of educational technology , and we can say , ‘ Well , there ’ s now 50 million students worldwide who are using the piece of educational technology that came out of UNSW ,’ we can measure impact in very meaningful and direct ways .
And of course we have QILT and those other direct institutional lines , but it is interesting that there ’ s that divide between whether we ’ re talking about our own educational practise , or are we talking about the impact on global education , in the same sense that we talk about research ?
Do you think we might be at the start of some genuine disruption in the traditional models of how we do higher education and what higher education is for ? I think the stage is set for disruption . I don ’ t know that it ’ s going to happen necessarily right now . There ’ s a very big difference between the higher education landscape in Australia compared with the US for example , where tuition is incredibly exclusive and universities brag about only accepting 2 per cent of applicants , and how you have to get a $ 300,000 loan to go to college .
In Australia , going to university is really just open for everybody , and our HELP scheme enables that , and we should be really proud of it . So are we ready for disruption ? Coursera and all of these online certifications ... well , again , they are not education , and they ’ re not going to replace what education is , but the problem is , are we going to continue to develop an educational experience for online students as we move more and more to that hybrid or fully online experience as well ?
I ’ m fascinated to see what happens , but my guess is that there won ’ t actually be as major a disruption as some people might be foretelling .
My guess is there won ’ t be as major a disruption as some people might be foretelling .
Are the pioneers of new models of higher education most likely to come from people like you and ventures that you ’ ve been involved in within our existing universities , or do you think they ’ re more likely to emerge from challengers outside the current setup ? There ’ s two main areas of disruption here . There is disruption of what is the actual accrediting body , and that is to say , “ I have a degree from UNSW Sydney , and UNSW Sydney have an accredited engineering program ,” and there ’ s the platform that we actually do our education on , which is traditionally Blackboard , Moodle or Canvas . It ’ s essentially the learning management systems .
Now , I believe that we ’ re in for a huge disruption in that space . I think that the future of higher education platforms is going to be big tech . I think it ’ s going to be Google versus Microsoft . To be honest , we see duopolies pretty commonly emerge in the tech space and I expect that is going to be a major disruption . But I do think , and maybe I ’ m being naively optimistic here , but universities have survived thousands of years , and we have changed , and we have adapted , and I think that we will continue to change and adapt and evolve to being that extremely important component of society and civilization : those places where young people gather and think and learn and have that experience that really elevates them as people .
So this is my prediction . The general march of civilization is that a higher proportion of people get a higher level of education as civilization moves forward , and we expect that to continue . What I think will happen is that more and more people will get their accreditations purely online , and so I think that will change , but I believe that universities will continue to be as popular as ever .
What would your advice be to our current universities about the best course of action they should take to survive in the way that you expect and hope they will ? Most universities in the world in 2019 were bricks and mortar institutions , and they essentially relied on the idea that students were there on campus . In 2020 , almost every single university in the world became an online university , completely and exclusively online . The campuses were basically abandoned .
In 2021 onwards , we are now hybrid universities . Some students are on campus , but while we adjust to limited social engagement , the possibility of resurgence and lockdowns , and also the inability of our international students to easily come back into the country and continue their degrees , means that there ’ s a long tail of having to offer a fully online experience to at least a proportion of our students . That ’ s going to go on for a total of about maybe three years .
This is what I mean when I say hybrid . Why would anybody switch that off ? Why would you say , after three years , ‘ let ’ s flip the switch off . No one can be online anymore . Everyone has to show up to campus to do their exams .’ You ’ re just not going to , so the future of higher education is hybrid , and this is not the same for K to 12 . The schools open up , the school kids all go back , they sit crosslegged in the classroom , and they cancel the Zoom licence , right ? It ’ s done . Back to normal .
So , how has Australia responded to this challenge ? Well , 17 out of 40 vicechancellors of Australian universities have essentially resigned in the year 2020 , and what that means , in spite of what they may have said , is they ’ ve looked at the future and put this in the too hard basket . So that ’ s pretty bleak .
What that tells us is that there ’ s not a lot of leadership or vision going on here . We don ’ t have an industry or a sector in Australia that is looking forward to this challenge as an opportunity to grow and innovate . If anything , they ’ re probably concerned about incredible challenges . ■
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