move forward. Sometimes students are absolutely the right sounding board, because whatever we’ re talking about is going to affect them first and foremost, so we want to know what they think. Beyond that, my husband is tremendously important. My children can be pretty important, at times. My mother was, before she passed away. Obviously, I’ m not sharing sensitive institutional matters with people who aren’ t part of the institution. But there are lots of things where you’ re simply talking through the issues. And then, of course, my senior staff and my board are really the key partners every day.
I was going to ask if you’ ve used each other as sounding boards, but this is the first time the three of you have actually been in the same room together, correct?
Mandel: Yes, it is. We actually have a coffee date that we’ re trying to organize. And we’ re trying to organize a dinner for the three of us, as well as the new president of Bennington College, who’ s also just arrived.
Well, thank you for taking the time to do your first interview together with us at Berkshire Magazine! We started the conversation with your approaches to problem solving. Let’ s discuss leadership. What leadership lesson did you learn in your formal training that has been indispensable? And what is a leadership lesson you’ ve learned that no classroom could have ever taught you?
Charlier: The thing I learned from one of my mentors— and I’ ve been so fortunate to have some incredible mentors— is that bad news does not get better with time. Ever. There’ s a tendency, I think, for some leaders to kind of sit on bad news and think about it for a really long time. Not that we shouldn’ t be thoughtful— we absolutely should— but if you’ ve got bad news to deliver, you really need to bite the bullet, find the best and most sensitive way to deliver it, and then do it. That’ s probably the formal lesson that is constantly in my mind. Informally, it comes back to something I mentioned earlier. We’ re all about students. We’ re all about our communities. And we work with incredible colleagues. People often talk about leadership as balancing tasks with relationships, almost as though you have to choose which is more important. For me, relationships win, hands down, every day. I often talk to senior leaders— particularly those who are new to an organization— and tell them that eventually they’ re going to face a challenge where they’ ll have to decide: Am I going to be efficient and productive and get this done? Or am I really going to take care of people? For me, it’ s always people first. The rest will come. That’ s probably the biggest lesson that lived experience has taught me.
Rogers-Adkinson: If I go all the way back, probably the very first thing that really changed me happened in undergraduate school— in my first communications class. I cried during every single speech. I had gotten F’ s all the way through high school, because I was terrified of standing up in front of people. I just couldn’ t do it. But a particular professor basically looked at me and said,“ No. You’ re not crying your way through this class.” He really took me under his wing. We spent time just talking through the fear. That unlocked something in me. Now, here I am in a role where public speaking is my every day. That professor unlocked a skill set that had really been hidden. It became one of my superpowers as a leader— the ability to communicate in all sorts of different settings and also to watch people. I hate being on Zoom because I can’ t watch body language. I want to see how people are emotionally responding to what we’ re talking about, whether it’ s a difficult problem, good news, bad news, or just being together at a barbecue with students. Everything is about communication and the relationships you build from that. That all goes back to those early lessons from that amazing professor and mentor.
Mandel: The most fundamental lessons that I continue to draw on are how to write, how to communicate, how to hunt for evidence— whether that’ s data or some other kind— and maybe most importantly, how to stay curious. I think, in some ways, all of those transferable skills are driven by a basic curiosity about people, about how the world works, and about how systems work. I’ m a historian by discipline, and historians study change over time. I think a lot of the things I learned as a historian have actually become fundamental to the way I think about institutions— how institutions change, how they adapt, and how you sustain that change through both challenging times and good times. Academically, that’ s certainly been core. Outside the classroom, though, so much of this job is that, as long as you’ re honest, you’ re learning every single day from other people. That lesson itself— that there’ s always more to learn— has been incredibly helpful. When you’ re at the top of an organization, people assume you’ re supposed to know all the answers. So staying open to that sense of curiosity and wonder has really been crucial.
You mentioned curiosity, and all three of you were nodding along, and I would certainly agree with that, based on my own experience in so many different fields, including medicine. Physicians often talk about burnout, and I would imagine that’ s very common in academia, as well. What are some of the things that you do for your own mental health and well-being?
Mandel: I’ m a big walker, and that’ s become a large part of my routine in the Berkshires, because it’ s such a beautiful place. I really try to carve out time every day for a walk whenever I can. Family and close friends are also a very significant part of it. Actually, one of the things that I was going to mention in response to the previous question fits here, too: Laughing. One of the biggest lessons through some of the most challenging times has been remembering to have a sense of humor. It helps me, and it helps everybody around me. So, anything I can do to laugh is good. Reading, too. Those are probably the biggest things.
Charlier: I couldn’ t agree more about laughter and having fun. And any time I can spend outside is incredibly healing. That’ s one of the reasons the Berkshires
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