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ways of life , various class systems , and that fed an interest in other healing modalities , such as acupuncture , osteopathy , chiropractic . These modalities had always been there , but their uptake was fired by this change , supported , as I ' ve said , paradoxically by people in privileged positions in the medical profession , but also by a public that was becoming more and more aware of the need to criticise and analyse the medical system .
Andrew : Right . Let ' s talk a little bit about the commencement of these teaching programs . It started with , was it the New South Wales College of Naturopathic Sciences ( later known as New South Wales College of Naturopathic Medicine )? Is that right ?
Denis : That ' s the college that I initially started teaching at . I had the privilege of teaching in that college and being responsible eventually , as Dean of the faculty of Herbal Medicine , for what I believe was the first three-year program and for graduating a cohort of students with a diploma in botanic medicine . That ' s what we called it in those days , the DBM . A large number of the group who had studied under me for three years as full-time - not part-time - students at that college , on completing their diploma in botanic medicine , went on to form the backbone of key professional associations , which would have died out without their membership .
Andrew : And what about the formation – the breaking away , if you like - of your school , the Southern Cross Herbal School ?
Denis : Yes . Well , while I was very committed at the New South Wales College of Naturopathic Medicine , there were students who wanted a closer association with me and who were not able to study full-time , and so I took on board the point that it was time for me to establish my own teaching platform , and I started Southern Cross Herbal School , and began to teach a diploma of medical herbalism course . That ' s how we referred to it , the DipMedHerb , a diploma of medical herbalism course . Initially this was at Glebe , where , while I taught my style of herbal medicine at nights on a part-time basis , more or less down the road at Balmain Dorothy Hall was teaching hers .
From Glebe we moved the headquarters of the school to Gosford and began to teach the course at two levels . We began to teach the course on what might be called a part-time seminar basis , where students would present for a full day of lectures once a month in various subjects . And at the same time , we also were teaching the program in conjunction with Nature Care College , where Southern Cross Herbal School would present the herbal medicine component of their naturopathic diploma course . And that was a very happy association with Nature Care , which went on for very many years .
Andrew : Denis , when did the NHAA commence in Australia ? Was that before the Southern Cross Herbal School or after ?
Denis : Yes , the NHAA , of which I ' m a life member , was functioning very many years before what I ' m talking about . It goes way back I think to about , don ' t hold me to it , to about 1919 or 1920 . The NHAA would have good records of the actual commencement , but I ' d think it was round about 1920 . When I became associated with it , about the mid-1970s , it had shrunk to very small number of mostly elderly practitioners who met very irregularly at Paul Wheeler ' s rooms in King Street , Newtown , many of whom in my recollection , were not very keen to share some of the knowledge on which their practices were built .
Which was sad , but I guess understandable in that in those days herbalists were not , you might say , that warmly welcomed by the mainstream ; and in fact there were one or two who actually had been subjected to litigation , and others who had been frightened by mooted charges against them . So I think what was happening was that they played it close to their chest . They did not want to be seen out there as making waves . They had good , honourable and ethical practices , but they did not feel that there would be any great virtue in blowing the trumpet of herbalism . Whereas when I came on board the renaissance we ’ ve talked about was in the air , and those associated with it , I and my graduates among them , we wanted to put herbal medicine on the map , and I would like to think that I had something to do with putting it on the map , initially via the National Herbalists Association of Australia ( now called Naturopaths and Herbalists Association of Australia ) and then , of course , subsequently with the Australian Traditional Medicine Society .
Andrew : That ' s right . Which Dorothy Hall established , yes ?
Denis : That ' s correct . Dorothy established ATMS , I think because the style of herbal medicine that she was teaching wasn ’ t compatible with the examination requirements of the NHAA . The core structure that Dorothy was teaching , the great course that it was , incorporated subjects and ideas that were different to those in the NHAA ' s curriculum , so it was not easy for people doing Dorothy ' s course to gain membership of the NHAA without doing further subjects to fulfil their curriculum requirements . So Dorothy , smart lady that she was , formed the Australian Traditional Medicine Society , which , of course , immediately became a home for her herbal medicine graduates , and down the track also for my own herbal medicine graduates .
Andrew : Moving into the future , Denis , what can we do to reinvigorate the herbal Renaissance ? Does it entail a fight for registration or co-regulation ? Or how hard do we fight for herbs that we ' ve lost , like , as you said comfrey . We ' ve recently lost uva ursi ,
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