Aptavani-6 Aptavani-6 | Page 125

94 Aptavani-6 Questioner: What? The Atma would not be there? Dadashri: No, what is the Atma, the Self, going to ‘see’ if there are no circumstances? If there is no existence of circumstances, then there is no existence of the Self either. Questioner: That means matter (jada) and life energy (chetan, the Self) co-exist. Otherwise, that cannot happen, can it? Dadashri: The world is going to remain the same; this world is never going to be without gneya. The knower (gnata) will remain and so will that which is to be known (the gneya). Questioner: There are no circumstances in siddha kshetra (location where the fully liberated Soul resides without a body), are there? Dadashri: No, but from there they can see all the circumstances here. What do they have to ‘see’? All this. When I raise my arm, they can see the arm raised here. Questioner: Their attribute of knowing-seeing (gnata- drashta) constantly remains with them, does it not? Dadashri: Yes, that will always remain. Where there is the Self and the gnata-drashta, the ‘knowing and the seeing,’ there lies only bliss (anand); otherwise, the bliss is not there. Questioner: Is there no bliss if there is no state of gnata- drashta? Dadashri: No there is not. The fruit of the knowing- seeing (gnata-drashta) state is bliss. On the one side, one becomes a gnata-drashta and on the other side bliss (anand) arises. That is how it is. When one goes to a movie, he gets upset if the curtains do not go up; he starts whistling and yelling. Why is that? That is because it bothers him to not be able to see what he has come to see. He is not happy until he sees the gneya (the movie he has come to see). That is how the Self